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Author Topic: Druid skill trees - pass 3  (Read 6441 times)
Dentin
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« on: August 22, 2013, 05:20:23 pm »

Not a lot of changes this time, but I do have a much better feeling for how runes work.  The sun, moon, and stars runes are basically power runes - the first thing you learn in each group is the binding rune which can be used to collect that kind of light, and the collected light is needed to do anything else in the group (as well as other things elsewhere.)  They need proper names, as 'collect sunlight' is pretty lame.

Viewing some runes as being channels for handling power sources opens things up a bit in my mind.  Off the top of my head, we could have dedicated power runes for handling sunlight, moonlight, starlight, raw mana, and blood.  For now, only sunlight, moonlight, and starlight have dedicated channels, and most other runes will be trivially powered by something appropriate (for example blood powering/linking effigies, and raw mana for spellstaff.)  We may make a proper blood rune tree later, or I may decide to tie wards and blood together in some way to make a unified skill set.  There's enough stuff as is that I can afford to delay that for a while.

One of the biggest open questions in my mind is moving the mage body alteration group almost entirely to druid.  Strength, dexterity, and infravision easily fit within the druid change form group; one could make a solid case for that with water breathing, and stone skin could easily be jammed into the earth group.  This leaves only haste, which I had somewhat envisioned as a time related spell, and which IMHO doesn't really fit into druid at the moment.

This does strip some very important utility out of mage, but given that mage is still far and away the most popular/highest leveled class out there, that may not be a bad thing.


6 rune carving (fairly solid) - for more advanced carving, can use various power sources
----------------------------------------
.   carve totem     - (blood) entry level carving skill - wood carving
.     carve effigy  - (blood) creates object, effigy of a mob, used to greatly enhance cast druid and cleric curses
                      link effigies by blood.  you create one, but in order to make it active, you have to finish
                      it using a drop of your blood.  Then you and the target are linked for your curses
.     carve rune    - entry level runes on wood - allow push object composite up to +12 or so?  NOT SURE HOW NOOBS COULD USE THIS
.       spellstaff  - allows storing of druid spells in wooden staffs, cudgels, clubs and rods.  staff invoke for area effect, not
                      wand.  probably only allow carving once, so the spell it casts is locked, but make it rechargable
.       petroglyph  - for stone and crystal
.       scrimshaw   - rune carvings on bone or ivory - requires piercing tip, not blade like carving
                      possibly superceded completely by existing runes below
                      scrimshawing onto necro bone items using sunlight, starlight, or moonlight could add more to them in the absence of soulbind
                      scrimshaw onto any bone item to permanently improve stats (crafting) up to composite say +10 or something
                      scrimshaw directly onto bone guardian/skeletal minion, "You slowly carve a complex rune on the skull of a skeletal mage"

6 sunlight runes (power source rune)
----------------------------------------
.       collect sunlight  - produces light flagged bottle, must be in inventory to use, cannot be darkened
.         sunlight room - uses stored sunlight, can break shadow bind and shadow skills, kill vanishing mobs
.           solar flare - use a sunlight bottle to do damage attacks
.         liveoak - sunlight powered rune that converts tree into treant guardian (minion)
.         fire runes - adds fire save and absorb to equipment
.         sundrinker - hp/move regen that only works in sunlight

5 moonlight runes (power source rune)
----------------------------------------
.       collect moonlight - produces glow flagged bottle, similar to sunlight
.         ice runes - adds cold save and absorb to equipment
.         regeneration runes - raise regen on room
.         warding runes - ward everything instead of just good/evil
.         moondrinker - mana regen that only works in moonlight

5 starlight runes (power source rune)
----------------------------------------
.       collect starlight - produces glow flagged bottle, similar to sunlight
.         lightning runes - adds zap save and absorb to equipment
.         fists of stone - fists rise up out of the ground for short term melee assistance
.           earthquake - real earthquake, time delayed, really fucks stuff up
.         stone golem - minion created by starlight - cant do while in melee combat

9 weather control (fairly solid)
----------------------------------------
.   control weather                  8 - control weather water/cold/hot/clear/storm
.     open the heavens                 - break cloud cover and kill bad weather via brute force for a short time, probably event handler recharge
.     call thunder                     - area fear effects
.       call lightning                 - hits current melee target, "you feel the charge of a lightning strike building, and direct it at %1!"
      impenetrable fog              12 - duration spell which reduces visibility, foundation for ice fog/blizzard/etc
.       ice fog                     15 - foundation for blizzard and freezing rain (rename to hoarfrost?)
          hoarfrost                    - like the bleach weather control spell used on arrancar #3 halibel
.         blizzard                  28 - cooldowns based on available moisture
.           freezing rain              - druid version of ice imprison, heh
.           hailstone                  - very localized, has startup timer and cooldown based on available moisture
.             hailstorm                - cooldowns based on available moisture

9 air (fairly solid)
----------------------------------------
.   gust of wind spell - good vs flying and "air" types
.     tempest - area affect breath damage - cast repeatedly to build up room wind to a high level, when high enough can tornado
.       hurricane/whirlwind/cyclone/tornado - pick mobs up and prevent melee attacks while also doing damage
.     still air - breathsave shield/spell
.       windbreaker - room based, localized global filter against all breath dtypes in room (not just breath weapons)
.         sunflower - first attempt at solar focusing, produces roving beams of sunlight that do area damage over time, like chain
.           sunstorm - lens focusing
.             bloodmoon - lens focusing, buffs roots/creepers other druid/animal spells, causes minions to go berserk in combat
.           eclipse - inverse lens focusing, throws room into twilight, counters sunstorm and sunflower, fear and panic in animals and morale hit for enemies

8 plants (fairly solid)
----------------------------------------
.   foraging
.     plant lore - shows what can be foraged in a given area, allows herb foraging
.     fire seeds - acorns and berries become grenades
.     create food                               14 cle
        mycomancy - mushroom farm (obscure) - area mushrooms
.       entangling roots                        24 cle - make roots spells have simply 50% fail to do things instead of 100%/binding
.         blackberry bramble                           - spiked entangling style attacker
.         poison ivy                                   - poisonous version
.         vampiric vines                               - life stealing/mana stealing entangling roots
          rising forest, area entangle and separation

8 animal (fairly solid)
----------------------------------------
.   calm animal - drops aggression on creature
.     spook - animal specific fear
.     animal magnetism/charisma - raises chr around animals
.     animal lore                               12 cle
.       know territory - color flag detection outdoors - "this looks like the edge of something's territory"
.       tame animal
.         call animal - stag (elk, deer, gazelle?), wolf (coyote, wolf), cat (bobcat, lynx, panther), bear (black, brown, grizzly)
                        allow calling of sharks and water critters too if in ocean, catfish for regular water, alligator for swamp?
.           nightwing - call a bat/raven and see through it's eyes, move around similar to free spirit (in puppet form, not possess form?)

7 favor of the fae (druid hexes) (fairly solid)
----------------------------------------
.   faerie fire
.     fairy fog
.     witchlight
.     apathy
.     famine
.     blight, kills plants and lowers foraging in a room
.     mortal fear (spook) - adds superwimp flag for a while

7 tinctures and poultices (fairly solid) - created from herbs - code scans through what is in your inventory to find good combinations
----------------------------------------
.   poultice of healing - regeneration
.     poultice of draw poison - druid version of remove poison, time delay event handler
      poultice of foulblood (?)
.     reeking poultice - negative charisma
.     cover scent - +1 charisma, +1 additional animal charisma
    brew salve - a thick healing/unpoison brew that also kills barkskin and possibly stoneskin, apply topically only - WARNING USELESS
      delay or stop poison - temporarily stop poison downtick and cut damage by factor of four - use the word "venom", make it a poultice?
.     barkskin brew - lower level/easier saving norm, possibly cold and breath resistant - note - need to make stone skin not stack saving norm
.     defoliate - brewed, empty room causes nosun forest rooms to become sun-enabled/open sky for a while
.     the hpmor acorn spell - continuous lightning flash style blindness including lighting up nearby 1-2 rooms in every direction

7 earth (very weak)
----------------------------------------
.   expose spring/create water                            19 cle
.   swampfoot - gives solid footing on mud/swamp move cost reduction
.   earth wall - druid shadow decoy, takes a couple hits before crumbling - like pain vs 9 tails - drop to one knee clap hands together
.   groundshaker/compromised footing - old earthquake - make very size dependent, if not already
.     shambling mound - tank minion without movement, must be summoned on the spot and vanishes quickly afterward
.     squeaky floors                            19 cle (obscure?)
.     earth to mud - temp changes room type to swamp, event handler to lag/slow everything in room
      stone skin - transferred mage spell

3 insects (very weak)
----------------------------------------
.   insect beacon/parasitic rider - like a high tech locater bug, allows you to track creatures once you plant it on them
.   black widow - poison damage, perhaps like bloodmist
.   insect plague
    parasite sounds cool and would give us evil druids

survival skills (weak)
----------------------------------------
.   mountaineering
.   forest nav
.   butchering
.   fishing
.   skinning
    hunting
    tanning - simple sort of thing that takes hides and turns it into the various 'fingerwear made of hide' objects
    firestarting

5 change form (weak)
----------------------------------------
.   sense life                                10 cle
.     equine endurance/longstrider - move regen intro transform spell
.       bear brawn/strength - intro transform spell - transferred mage str spell
.         fox foot - dexterity - next tranform spell - transferred mage dex spell
.         cats eye - infravision/extended sight?
          aqualung/water breathing - transferred mage waterbreathing spell
          feral mind
            beast claws
              werewolf?  heh

misc/questionable/unknown
----------------------------------------
    trample?
    snowblind - probably dont need anymore icy weather spells
    rainbow totem/sign/miracle, group morale booster augury?
    commune with nature?
    blow away - wind spell to move creature to neighboring room
    plantwalker - like deathwalker for plants
    poison fog - dot poisoning spell?  overlaps with poison cloud already, not sure which group
    extract poison - Removes poison from target and puts it in a liquid container that the druid can use

    tidal wave - for use in/under water
    flood
    whirlpool - for use in/under water
    water weird - summoned water-only minion
    water walk - gives you a boat flag

    runic tattoo    - (temporary on people, one at a time only), dont conflict with war paints - could also put on leather items as weak enchant
    blood runes   - cut with a knife, heal instantly when they expire - undefined effects as yet - perhaps a later skill group
    dark offering - soulsteal mechanic, but uses binding energy to power a rune
    rune wards
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Draak
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 06:36:17 pm »

What will totems do?

Instead of "collect" sunlight, moonlight, starlight, could have "distill" or "capture"

stone golem -> simulacrum -- creates a minion shaped roughly like the caster that varies based on the local terrain type. The different minions would have slightly different stats:

Sand simulacrum for beaches, sandy, desert, wasteland?, dunes
Stone simulacrum for rock, ruins, mountain, cave, underground, hill
Earth simulacrum for field, forests, jungle (has wood and vegetation sticking out of it?)
Mud simulacrum for swamp, marsh
Water simulacrum for stream, water, river, ocean, underwater
Snow simulacrum for tundra, ice
Magma simulacrum for lava

Doesn't work in towns and city?

This might make shambling mound superfluous

Insect tree should be branch of animal tree

Know territory is too meta. We use color flags to represent tons of stuff, from magic wards to pathing for patrols of soldiers.
I know you like the idea, but realistically, what will it be used for?

It looks like you should just kill the earth tree and stick the stronger stuff under the starlight runes. Swampfoot goes to
survival. Squeaky floors has runes written all over it (no pun intended). Stoneskin could become a salve like barkskin.

reeking poultice -- useless?

poultice of foulblood -- foulblood seems fine where it is

Okay, this one is kind of goofy:

For collect moonlight, need a moonshine ability! Make some good ol' moonshine! Probably some kind of weird buff potion.
Maybe a tincture/poultice ability that uses bottled moonlight?

This is a game, we need to have some fun Wink

Another for plant: pollen -> flower sprouts and blows pollen at the target, then shrivels. Triggers a sneezing fit in living targets,
causing movement damage and distraction, countered by saving breath. Has clinging aftereffect, the target sniffles causing
-1 dodge/attacks?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 06:42:57 pm by Draak » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 04:11:34 am »

Radical changes after talking to Shadowfax:

Nuke collecting moonlight and starlight, these are weird and you are obviously having trouble thinking of things they should do.
Replace with collecting other natural energy such as bottling lightning and cold (call it frost? hoarfrost?)

Move sunflower and sunstorm into sunlight runes group -> you use bottled sunlight to attract and channel local sunlight
into attacks in the progression of solar flare, sunflower, sunstorm. Maybe after a sunstorm, the room goes
twilight for a few rounds.

Collect (gather, distill, capture?) sunlight -> if you know this skill, you should be able to use the bottled sunlight to produce
a sunlight effect on a room without learning another skill.

sundrinker -> becomes a poultice, turn yourself photosynthetic (green skin!) to gain bonus hpregen in sunlit rooms. Also, when
under the influence of this spell, consuming bottled sunlight restores hitpoints -- normally it just burns your lips!

For simulacrums -> runes are carved into a special totem, which is then imbued with power and tossed into mud, snow, water or
lava (must be a stone for lava and cannot be powered by cold, so you need to know petroglyph!) or just planted into the ground
for earth, sand and stone. Some, like mud, water and lava, might be rooted to the place of their creation. The magic of the totem
encased within it binds the simulacrum together until the power runs out.

Let's put create simulacrum in the general rune tree, dependent on carve effigy. Simulacrums can be powered by sun,
lightning or whatever cold will be, as long as you have the appropriate collection skill. They would gain a resistance to fire, zap or
ice accordingly, with some variability according to their terrain type.

Make a high level druid skill to collect moonlight and starlight to create sunlight bottles at night?

Air group loses sunflower and sunstorm (goes to sun runes). Bloodmoon becomes a buff spell in animal. Eclipse seems
redundant -- can't you just bring in clouds to block the sunlight?

Combine reduced air and weather trees.

Druids have no control weather spells to take advantage of warm, dry weather. They will always be making it cooler and wetter.
The tree needs diversification. Perhaps dust storm?

Swelter -> makes it uncomfortably hot, harming living creatures and lowering the AC of ICE mobs

Dehydrate -> harms living creatures, extra damage to ICE, WATER and PLANT mobs

Poultices and salves -> part of the plant tree, dependent on plant lore.

Make more firmly defined:

Poultices are bundles of herbs used for medicinal effects. A poultice of staunching is placed on wounds to increase hitpoint
regeneration and stop bleeding effects (such as from bloodletting stab). A poultice of draw poison is used to draw poison from
a wound, decreasing the target's poison register over time. Another might be a poultice of counterhex, which removes curses
from the target by lowering the level of the curse until it is gone (smoke wafted over the target as the poultice is burnt?)
Defoliate could also be smoke from a burnt poultice.
Poultices are reactive -- you use them to treat conditions.

Extract poison -> extract poison from a used draw poison poultice, spit out at an opponent?

Salves are herbal pastes with magical properties. They can be applied to topically to induce certain conditions. A pheromone salve
increases charisma, especially with animals. A barkskin salve invokes the barkskin condition, sundrinker salve the sundrinker
condition, stoneskin salve the stoneskin condition. Maybe a thorns salve to grow damage-reflection spines.
Salves are proactive -- you use them to induce conditions.

hpmor acorn spell -- I know you like the fanfic and it made sense in the context of that universe, but how useful is this for
Alter Aeon? under what circumstance will it be used? is it dissimilar enough from lightning flash to justify it? do we really
need another spell that invokes blindness, a mechanic you do not like?

Keep the earth tree, give it fists of stone and earthquake. Earth to mud should be mire. Shambling mound
might not be a good choice if we go with simulacrums. Add avalanche for hills, mountains, caves and underground!

Add lion's might as a constitution booster in change shape.

Your candidness about body alteration is appreciated. It is a hard decision to make.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 07:07:21 pm by Draak » Logged

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Draak
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 05:07:39 am »

More druid hexes:

will o' the wisp-> the target glows with soft white light. Wandering mobs are compelled to follow it. Non-wandering mobs and mobs
with the GUARD flag receive a saving throw to break the effect each time they move to another room. NOCHARM mobs are immune.

Alternatively, this could create a glowing ball of fey magic that has the same properties as the target described above.

mermaid's (siren?, kelpie's?) kiss -> high level hex causes a living, non-waterbreathing target to begin drowning
on regardless of terrain. They receive a saving throw each round to break the effect.

Name drop: siren's song -> no idea, could do something awesome

FYI favor of the fey is a lame name for a spellgroup.
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sneaky
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 07:57:32 am »

Had a few ideas

Druid runes

I like to see some runes that have area/room effects
basically an item u keep in ur inventory and drop on the ground
when seting up a safe room to regen.

for exampe: a wind or earth rune that worked like chimes or squeeky floors.




Adding these type of items and skills will opening up the way for traps for thieves.


Druid class -

I think it be neat if the druid was like an hp machine, hp regen heavy
moreso than on mana.   If i could pick druids top 3  starting stats i'd pick con wis and str

Like to see the druid class be pretty melee oriented, we have plenty of casting going
on. 

Transformation skills would be neat, fighting as a wolf/bear with damage being
base on str and skill-level.

Maybe  morphing skills that increase stats, being a bear gives +3 str. +100 hp -2 wis + 10 dam + 2 hit.. exe 


fairies/familiars (eagles/ravens)

all sorts of pets

eagles giving extended sight

ravens maybe could scout a head a room and come back tell u if its empty
or maybe the druid possess the raven and see's through its eyes



really curious to see what direction ur going to go in.


But i'm just picturing level 36 druid with 1500+ hp 100+ hp regen doing good damage
and near impossible to drop in most situtaions

a druid warrior thief tank would be overpowered the way i'm chalking this up. 



looking at the moon/sun drinking skills/spells seems like the druid is being set up to be heavy regen
oriented.   

adding mid level useful runes might be worth the heavy exp grind  for us power levelers.
can't imagine how much exp going cost for me get druid on par with necromancer for level 19/20




I have my most fun cutting down mobs in brutal combat, and i think the druid class
should take advantage of the great melee combat system thats already set up.


thanks! for reading

-sneaky






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Shadowfax
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 04:36:29 am »

Sneaky:  We already have a class that does that.  It's called "warrior".

Heh, but I know what you're getting at.  Actually, I think I see good things trending.  I'd like to
see druids be another healer but heal in a different way than clerics.  Right now, with all the runes,
light sources, tattoos and salves, druids are going to heal by jacking up a character's hpregen instead
of doing instantaneous spells like clerics.  I like that a lot.

With paladin off of the table, I hope to see druid occupy the space between cleric and warrior in
terms of game balance.  The 'change form' seems to be the druid's pathway to becoming a powerful
melee combatant.

Oh, and I think totems work the way that Sneaky is talking about.  You activate it and drop it on the
ground, and they affect everyone in the room until they wear off.  (It would be funny if scavenger mobs
could pick them up and carry them off!)

===

Other than that, Draak summed up things pretty well.  I'd only add of couple of things:

Like Draak said, druids using 'control weather' have no incentive to nudge the weather any way except
toward humid and overcast (and cold) to use the other spells dependent on it, which are all
precipitation-based.  The group needs some diversification to take advantage of different weather
combinations.  (A druid should have weather spells for any occassion!)  Some more suggestions:

'Overheat'/'Scorch'/'Sunburn' for hot and dry.  Uses ambient heat to cook a living creature's body,
boiling blood and hemorrhaging organs.  (Like getting a fever, only much, much worse!)

'Duststorm' for dry.  Substitute for 'impenetrable fog', or have it deal damage to everyone in the
room throughout its duration.

'Swelter' for humid and hot, as Draak described.

In addition, clear skies should necessary for solar focusing (so the druid can see what he's doing,
if nothing else!).

'Open the heavens' is superfluous.  Sure, it sounds cool, but a druid should be able to clear the sky
using 'control weather'.

===

'Beast claws' changes the druid's natural damage type to claw and gives him a wield flag for the
duration.  Synergizes well with 'unarmed combat'.  (Claw needs to be added to the slash/slice damage
group.)

===

Wouldn't 'blow away' do exactly what 'gust of wind' would?

===

I see you've got the water spells clustered together, so perhaps you're still considering a water
group.  I would strongly recommend it.  Let me take another crack at it:

WATER GROUP

water walk - gives you a boat flag
  dehydrate - forcibly extracts water from target, damaging living and WATER mobs
    extract poison - Removes poison from target and puts it in a liquid container that the druid can use
  create water - does what it does now, plus damaging FIRE types and extinguishing fires and fireweb
    tidal wave - for use in flooded/water room or adjacent flooded/water room
      flood - floods a room with water, must be adjacent to water or another flooded room
        water weird - summoned water-only minion
          whirlpool - for use in flooded/water room


'Dehydrate' provides the druid with a low-level but reliable direct-damage magic normal damage
spell useful against most opponents.  Besides the air group, druid seems to be lacking in direct-damage
spells at low level.

I'd love to see 'create water' become a more multi-purpose spell.  It might need a better name,
though.  Like "font" or "fountain".

'Flood' would not be available until Archais level, where it and the subsequent spells would be useful
around the archipelago.

===

Also, 'poison fog' might be good in the plant group, perhaps using plant pollen as an agent to deliver
the poison.   Alternatively, since Draak explained to me how and why the druid hexes work the way
that they do, perhaps a disease group for new spells like 'poison fog' would not be out of the
question.  The "diseases" would actually be advanced poisons, which clerics, druid and thieves would
have a means of countering.
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Draak
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 05:04:44 am »

Shadowfax said:
Quote
Alternatively, since Draak explained to me how and why the druid hexes work the way
that they do, perhaps a disease group for new spells like 'poison fog' would not be out of the
question.  The "diseases" would actually be advanced poisons, which clerics, druid and thieves would
have a means of countering.

In this case, I'd call diseases "pathogens" intead, or perhaps "pestilence" or "plague".
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 06:45:47 am by Draak » Logged

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Draak
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 06:34:26 pm »

Moonlight and starlight having wildly different effects from sunlight is well, strange from a physics standpoint.

How about some other natural forces that could be bottled other than moonlight and starlight:

lightning
fire
smoke
morning dew
fog/clouds

Lightning invokes a potent image: bolts of lighting striking runes, causing them to crackle and spark It has great synergy with druid
weather control abilities

fire and smoke (to a lesser extent) are natural choices for coldsave runes and fit in good with the firestarting skill

morning dew and fog/clouds are weaker choices for coldsave
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 01:50:39 am »

morning dew

I thought that said 'mountain dew', which invoked an image of druids wandering the mountains in search of dew that they could bottle potions from.
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almaric
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 05:05:22 pm »

Imo you should give the mage some new alternatives, if you take infra, stone, str or dex from them.
Adding foxpaw and bearpower spells for the druid doesnt require to remove sstr and dex from the mage. You could dent both of them, so you could raise a stat using one of those spells by 5 points at max. e.g. imagine you're a level36 thief. you would cast the dexterity spell, so your dex would increase to 30. then you would cast the foxpaw spell, so your dex would increase to 35. this would make the foxpaw and the bearpower spell basically a clone, but both of them would be useful, especially cast together.
Infra should stay on mage, or become a general spell, as every class needs it. Alternatively the cat eye spell could be a damn lowlevel spell on druid, like level3.

Stone skin - you could make a stoneskin-like spell for mages, called crystal skin or even crystal coat - the mage would coat himself with crystal, which would give a little normsave. i think draak made such a suggestion in the past already. Mages are squishy enough, so a little normsave wouldnt hurt them. e.g.
mclev 0-19: 5%
mclev 20-29: 10%
mclev 30-39: 15%
mclev40-49: 20%
mclev 50+: 25%

Well, thats it. hope you were able to understand me.
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Mandras
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2013, 04:17:34 am »

sunlight (behaves like particles sometimes, but not solid)
----------------------------------------
.   sunbathing  - soak in healthy UV rays to increase your Vitamin D
                  count. Vitamin D regulates calciuum metabolism (+hp
                  regen, reduces the physiological shock of shapeshifting,
                  cross-class benefit to bone spells).
.     tanning oil - increases the effect of sunbathing on your skin
                    colour. A high tan modifier provides a minor boost to
                    your 'hide' check. Fades over time.
- excessive use of sunlight will result in UV burns (high chance of
  contact damage) as well as lower saving throws against shower of sparks,
  colour spray, lightning flash and dancing lights.

moonlight (weak)
----------------------------------------
.   moonlighting - temporarily increases your level in any one class lower
                   than your druid level, while lowering your druid
                   castlevel by an equal amount. Your druid castlevel must
                   remain above the other class' level. You cannot improve
                   any skills through use in the other class because
                   you're usually too tired to learn anything.
.     moonbeam - you can project a ray of moonlight at will, to no
                 apparent effect. What did you expect?
.     moong bean - a typo of moonbeam has allowed you to summon these
                   green beans that can grow into bean sprouts in a
                   surprisingly short time.

starlight (there's a lot of it, even though it's hard to tell)
----------------------------------------
.   stargazing - your knowledge of popular astronomy is enough to impress
                 the occasional date, but it's really not a useful skill
.     stardust - a sprinkle of this will greatly increase your charisma
                 when interacting with small, good-aligned creatures,
                 like rabbits and faeries
.     starfish - summon a complex sea creature famed for it's ability
                 to regenerate limbs over the course of several months


More seriously, I have the following thoughts for control weather skills:
  • I'd base it around a handful of variables (derived from how we commonly measure weather): humidity, temperature, and atmospheric pressure (and/or wind speed), on a 1-100 scale each. Translated to a medieval fantasy setting, that's of course water, ice/fire, and air.
    • "Visibility" in relation to the sunlight skills could be it's own variable, or calculated from the others.
  • Changing a value either way at extreme ends of the scale should be much harder than near the middle (if it's very dry, it's hard to call rain; if it's already pouring, it's hard to call much more rain).
    • The weather will always return to equilibrium (but the level of equilibrium may be different in different terrain/areas!)
    • This agrees with Shadowfax's idea: "a druid should be able to clear the sky using 'control weather'." It's easier to bring weather back to normal... unless you let it get out of control
  • If you repeatedly change the weather in an area, it can have lasting effects (similar to gold/exp offsets for farming an area too much)
  • It's nearly impossible to change any one element without influencing others. Before scaling, calling rain would thus increase the water quotient by a large amount, lower ice-fire by a moderate amount, and increase the air value by a small amount.
  • Area effects interact/build upon with each other in an organic way. I'm avoiding the word "stack". Unlike a mage who can expend mana to draw ice out of thin air, and then in the next moment conjure a fireball, a druid should have to call rain before he calls lightning or blizzard, and calling lightning will enable him to call thunder more easily.
    • Similarly, some effects act against each other, or are totally incompatible. It's hard to get fog if you just scorched the entire land into desert.
    • BUT! A truly powerful druid could retain some of the elements that he removed (e.g. water removed from an area can follow him in a cloud, fire removed can be a heatwave following), and bring it back to create unnatural events like a sudden blizzard in the desert

And some other ideas in general:
  • Druids are different from existing spellcasters. You use the verbs "call" (thunder) and "expose" (spring), rather than "cast" or "create". How about they use mana and move for their skills? They could be expending both mental and physical energy to influence nature, rather than interfacing with other planes in a more direct way like our current understanding of mages and elemental magic.
  • In line with expose spring and foraging, there shouldn't be a magical "create food". That should be a mage spell that creates tasteless crap (that can be illusioned to look good) - I think I even remember a mob saying that s/he survived on created food while trapped/imprisoned or similar, but don't know where / might have imagined it
  • I like that sunlight links to treant and not just obvious fire stuff, and starlight links to stone (perhaps to do with meteoric content left on our plane). Maybe the moon can influence the animal tree? Lunacy is a possible theme, though I'd avoid obvious lycanthropy skills. Some animals are wilder at night.
  • Some misc skills just don't make sense in any class tree. Fishing should not be druid (or "ranger" thief). It's a PC hobby or NPC job. Other misc skills might do better to remain classless (forest navigation), but have class skills that modify that score - a druid with certain animals summoned would have a passive bonus to forest navigation/climbing/etc. A thief with good search/sneak/hide could also have a +modifier for navigation. Thus a druid/thief would have the best survival skills, but all classes can have decent survival skills. A warrior (with improved stamina, ironclaw) could get a + to climbing/mountaineering
  • Combine blood runes and tattoos into a buff that gets better over time up to a point, then they could possibly get worse or have outright negative effects. i.e. a rune takes time to "set" after you've drawn/cut the pattern into your skin and grow to the full strength of the buff, but leave it on too long and you could succumb to bloodlust/animal instinct/insanity/disease/something

One of the biggest open questions in my mind is moving the mage body alteration group almost entirely to druid.
I think Mage buffs can remain, whether some stack, block the Druid counterparts, or have different applications such that getting both groups will still be worthwhile. Just because Druid exists doesn't mean mages can't magically enhance their physical bodies. You could move them out of body alteration and tie them into the various elemental spellgroups, however, and introduce some drawbacks; for example:
  • instead of strength, introduce a fire-based spell that greatly enhances metabolism for a short time, but leaves you weaker after
  • instead of water breathing, have the mage conjure an air bubble that enables him to move about underwater. The bubble can be destroyed by damage, and will run out over time. Mages can willingly pop the bubble in an emergency to propel them up towards the surface (some distance away, they lose progress in the underwater area)
  • Infravision could check the presence of a mob/player against all types of hide/invis as it detects heat (but not always revealing the actual object), while cats eye could have a chance to completely penetrate invis instead.
  • Some spells have no logical equivalent for either side, like stone skin is probably much better as a druid spell. Perhaps the mage spell shield could have an additional AC bonus against pierce or something - their overall physical defense should still drop with the loss of stone skin

There. I'm still very much a newbie, and I don't have a feel for the high-level/overall class balance, but I hope some of these ideas are at least interesting.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 04:23:52 am by Mandras » Logged
Abaet
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 12:43:59 pm »

I love the idea of this class, firstly. We also have some great ideas flowing (mostly due to Shadowfax and Draak, so thank you).

First I'll address something minor that kind of bugs me. Poultices/tinctures seems more magey to me but I could be wrong and be the only one who feels that way..Why don't you opt out for a more traditional but fitting skill tree name like Herbalism, and make a particular druid forage skill open like forage herbs? That way an untrained forager wouldn't know the difference between poisonous plants and edible/healing herbs.
Within Herbalism:
Healing poultice (healing salve?): Love it.
Poultice of draw poison: Love the idea of it but why not do something more like Leech, where it attaches a leech to the infected area and the leech sucks the poison out of the system(could even do a minor -hp regen while attached) can detach or remove leech when the poison is gone.
Poultice of Foulblood?: not so in love with this one, mostly because I associate foulblood way more heavily with necromancer and it doesnt seem as naturalistic as a druid is/should be.
Cover scent: I can see where it'd be useful but more or less would it function with invis to keep mobs from "sniffing" you out? or just give stat bonuses?
brew salve: It seems like a heavier version of healing poultice no real opinion here
delay/stop poison: turnicate? stops the poison from doing its damage as rampantly but would also have to slow the hp regen too due to the lack of blood flow (not necessarily a bad thing if you are brewing potions or using healing poultice)
Barkskin- Seems like a great addition for lower level players almost like a pre-req for stone skin could be like 10% norm save and 5% cold/breath save?
defoliate: 2 words: LOVE IT
Hpmor: could it be put over into the call lightning spell or into something similar?
One with Nature: passive skill could act kind of  like deathly sleep except for can only be used in particular environments, forests, swamps, desert,etc. could make it a lot lower regen gain but add like 5 hp mana move regen on top of your natural when in those environments


NEXT:
create water: always
swampfoot: i like the idea of it and it works well with earth to mud
earth wall: this is probably one of my favorite ideas but make it 1 wall with a set amount of hp based on clev it could totally replace shambling mound as a tank (they seem the same to me) give it no ability to hit back just sit there and take the heat for a short time
groundshaker: i like it, i was always a fan of earthquake so im glad to see it might have a place
earth to mud: make it act like leth to anything that isnt swamp-footed, also like the idea of changing the terrain type
stone skin: Want it Need it

Insects:
parasitic rider: its pretty cool, i might be upset if its not put in
black widow: would be cool for a poison attack but also a minor reduction to dex and maybe even confusion or a slowed down effect (again kinda like leth)
insect plague: I was thinking of something similar but more like locust swarm: causes confusion and small/medium damage
I liked Parasite: Do it

There's what I think plus a couple more ideas. keep up the awesome work D
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Draak
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 03:19:54 pm »

Two quick ideas:

The water tree could be made obscure.

Barkskin and stoneskin don't necessarily have to give normsave. Perhaps barkskin could give a certain degree of resistance to piercing damage (nonorm, magic or otherwise) and stoneskin gives a certain amount of resistance to slashing damage (nonorm magic or otherwise). They would (of course) not stack.

Mages would have the crystal scales spell for normsave.
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Nothing special there.
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